lucas magneto not sparking

Photo-sequences of stripping and I did notice a very small spark between the contact breaker points. Just to reinforce a point here of something very well done that you did in the how-to: when you're testing a mag like this, ALWAYS have the plug wires hooked up with a gap (or plugs) to ground so that energy has somewhere to go. Rotate the armature and check that, when the points are fully open, the moving point assembly is not fouling anything. The older term "high-tension" means "high-voltage".[1]. However, if the outside of the pick-up is also oily, perhaps its all caused by an engine oil leak. magnetos available for sale or in i totally agree. With your multimeter set to display resistance and connected to the opposite faces of the circuit board of the EasyCap (and with your fingers touching no more than one side of the circuit), the meter reading should climb up from a low value until it goes off the scale (OL). Twirl the armature. Also, with the points open, check that there is an open circuit between them; if fitted with a Brightspark EasyCap, it will take a little while for the resistance reading to climb off the scale. This was examined earlier. Check for wear and replace any worn parts. Magneto coils are usually a long time dying. Italiana If the magneto wont produce a spark across a 6 mm (or 4 mm) gap at leisurely kicking speeds, and if youve satisfied yourself with all the other checks described earlier, then it probably needs a more complete overhaul. grade to avoid carbon deposits on the slip Check out our magneto armature winding service. You need to confirm that the condenser has failed AND that replacing it will solve the problem. Ignition - Check Spark strength, Spark timing and . A good Wico X series mag will jump at least 3/8" air gap. or. The air gap allows the voltage to build on the rotor until it is high enough to jump the gap thus it actually magnifies it somewhat. IMPORTANT. of which is the product of Brightspark Magnetos Ltd's With the earth brush(es) now replaced, measure the resistance between the back-plate of the contact breaker assembly and the main body of the magneto. Likes: 260. scotland. i'm an asshole, you probably shouldn't listen to me. Svensk any service or repair work until further notice. NEWS FLASH - March 2020 As you will understand, with the Covid-19 pandemic shutting down most normal business, we are not able to despatch orders for the time being. Upgrade your membership to If higher than that, investigate. Feel free to buy the forum staff a coffee or pint or just make a contribution of your choice. Nederlandse This expediential degradation may appear to be sudden when the fault occurs. Thanks. If your bike runs poorly, backfires at all but idle, stalls out and won't start back when hot, then works again when cool. have a small choice of reconditioned If you can't get even 1/4", I would be worried it would not work under the stress of being in the combustion chamber. and overhauls. Or what else could be causing this? At least I assume so: My timing light (seen in photo clamped to plug wire #1) illuminates correctly when plug #1 is unscrewed from the engine and sparks, but it does not light up when the plug is screwed into the engine. Click Here to view Lucas face cam (magdyno) parts manual. It is also used in modern piston-engined aircraft[citation needed] (even though a battery is present), to avoid the engine relying on an electrical system. replacement for the condenser (capacitor) in Pick-up brushes of the highest quality are also available, of the correct grade to avoid carbon deposits on the slip ring. This was diagnosed as the cam ring not being properly timed to the magnetic poles. If the timing is not correct on both lobes, the reason could be that: the contact-breaker assembly is wobbly on the end of the armature; the cam or its housing were incorrectly machined (rare); with ring-cam magnetos, the armature and cam are not coaxial due to the outer race of the bearing at the contact-breaker end not being seated properly by its insulator in the cam housing. patterns for shims, gaskets and bearing I also want to wire up the battery better, as I'm just using jumper cables. The air gap between the rotor and the cap actually increases spark output as long as it's not excessive. Carefully check for any cracks or pin-holes in the pick-up. Such a system is known as an "energy transfer" ignition system. Check the state of the points surfaces. I can never stress this enough to people who try to test out their mags. A short circuit absorbs all the power, hence no output or spark. When inserting the brushes; you may have to do. found elsewhere on the internet or in the Parts lists and workshop instructions, not It uses a magneto and a transformer to make pulses of high voltage for the spark plugs. Thanks again. 0000002567 00000 n You can check for this by trying to start in a dark area with no lighting. If an earth brush is fitted behind the back-plate, check that the spring is good, that the brush is free to move and that it is not unduly worn in length or diameter. However, dont make them lop-sided. If possible, get somebody to help. Many should appreciate. Italiana With the plugs in the engine connect one plug outside like you have been testing it to confirm no spark, If there is spark present I would open the gap of an old spark plug to 3/16" and see if the spark will jump that gap. NEWS FLASH - March 2020 As you will understand, with the Covid-19 pandemic shutting down most normal business, we are not able to despatch orders for the time being. The gap will widen as the wire ends melt further apart and soon the adjacent turns will be affected so the coil will eventually fail. In more modern times, insulation materials have improved to the point where constructing self-contained magnetos is relatively easy, but energy transfer systems are still used where the ultimate in reliability is required such as in aviation engines. It shouldnt be very many ohms, and certainly less than 30 ohms. how they work; and to collate as much other Not sure what came off, but 1930s/40s I would have thought.prefer collection, but would post. BTH mags utilized condensers made from mica. 0000003777 00000 n There is no wire hooked up to the cap. Remove two nuts and funny-looking-long-thing that attaches the mag to the engine Check the plug-wires at the end that goes into the mag .and remove sparkplug-cap and make sure you have a good connection (maybe you'll want to cut of a bit and re-atttach) Remove the two high-tension pick-ups from the mag Disassemble the advance/retard mechanism carefully noting which part goes where. Powered by Invision Community. That then produces a gap of about 4 mm between the centre electrode and the screw-threaded bit of the plug body. These were on older equipment which hadcomplete tune upsthat wentto the field and didn't work more than a hand full or two of times and then they would begin to start hard, no start or run for a short time and shut off then not restart. The timing marks should not wander with the RPM of the drill. troubleshooting your magneto. "A Community of Antique Engine Enthusiasts." anglais, votre convenance. Do not skimp on quality with pick-up brushes. Check the state of the contact return spring and replace if broken. Deutsch Once the insulation has been broken down once, it often makes it easier for it to be broken down again. If sloppy, consider fitting a new moving point (Lucas), bush (BTH), or pivot post. Contact Us - DO NOT EMAIL CAR QUESTIONS. JavaScript is disabled. As the voltage of the primary winding rises to several hundred volts,[3][4] the voltage on the secondary winding rises to several tens of thousands of volts, since the secondary winding typically has 100 times as many turns as the primary winding.[3]. It uses a Bosch ZA4 magneto (rebuilt about 10 years back) which produces a nice blue spark in the plugs when they are out of the engine. downloadable drawings for those of you who 0000003162 00000 n I have seen several condensers during that time whichwork for the half but will not generate the field collapse andfire the plug . Some original units are still in service today. Can you rig up real cables? Magnetic - Check magnetism and Remagnetise magneto body. I worked on farm equipment for my last real service job from 2013 thru 2016. I'd need to install it in the chassis or rig up something to do that. 0000002409 00000 n This can mask a fault on these cars as the vehicle will continue to run until the other fails. I wonder if hand-cranking might get it going. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. At least I assume so: My timing light (seen in photo clamped to plug wire #1) illuminates correctly when plug #1 is unscrewed from the engine and sparks, but it does not light up when the plug is screwed into the engine. With twin- or multi-cylinder magnetos, and some single-cylinder magnetos, the brass is a segment, rather than a complete ring, and you may need to rotate the armature in order to be able to see it. If not provided with a safety gap, there is a risk of expensive damage. This allows the spring to unwind giving the rotating magnet a rapid rotation and letting the magneto spin at such a speed to produce a spark. We shall resume operations as soon as we possibly can. You should not let a Wico X go out the door if it will not jump more than 1/4" because something is wrong. She was factory fitted with a Morris Vedette MKII engine which has a lucas rf4 magneto. Posts: 34. 0000000016 00000 n Replace the main-body earth brush, if applicable. The reading will probably be a fraction of an ohm. [7] Ignition magnetos were soon was used on most cars, for both low voltage systems (which used secondary coils to fire the spark plugs) and high voltage magnetos (which fired the spark plug directly, similar to induction coil ignition). On the Lucas magnetos, the spec is to jump a .200 gap at 200 rpm for the slow speed test. I would be interested to hear from people who either have seen this running or know of similar setups in forges. I did run the rpm up with my lathe to 1,000 rpm & it easily jumped 5/8", so were good there, SMOKSTAK is a Registered Trade Mark in the U.S. If there are any, repeat until the paper comes out clean. These faults do not necessarily occur instantaneously, they may develop over time leading to a gradual deterioration of the spark output. things we think matter when it comes to magnetos and. So, re-check everything in the contact-breaker assembly first before deciding on a more complete overhaul. If the pick-up is retained by spring clip, swing it to one side while holding the pick-up in place. "Colonel fair is fair: if I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye can I go home too?". Housings can sometimes get misshapen, in which case try to rectify that. I'll try the 3/16" gap test. A second coil, with many more turns than the primary, is wound on the same iron core to form an electrical transformer. Wrap some rag around the end of a stick about 1/4 diameter, moisten it with petrol or other cleaning fluid (but not so much that it is dripping), poke it through the pick-up hole in the magneto body, and rotate the armature to clean the slip ring. Lucas workshop instructions - magnetos Library Robert Bosch Documentation American Bosch workshop instructions Patents Books and learnd papers Workshop instructions - Lucas magnetos N1, KN1, K1F, K2F, KVF MO1L, MN2L Redesigned contact breaker for ring cam models SR magnetos (general info.) Even if the points surfaces look good, clean them with fine emery cloth to remove any oxide layer. 0000007301 00000 n [5] Therefore, some magnetos have an impulse coupling, a springlike mechanical linkage between the engine and magneto drive shaft which "winds up" and "lets go" at the proper moment for spinning the magneto shaft. Don't flame, hate, spam. Problems rooted in the magneto are sometimes obvious, or can seem like all sorts of other things. I do not think this is your issue because the timing light does not trigger. DIY Magneto Maintenance and Troubleshooting replace it with an EasyCap. A short circuit absorbs all the power, hence no output or spark. Great photos, quality! If there is a lubricating felt, soak it in oil. One of the plug caps should give a reading which is substantially the same as the reading you obtained in the internal HT continuity section. The magneto is rebuilt by a reputable US shop. I know a great starting engine will fire a plug with 3/16" gap when external of a cylinder. The plugs all light when loosened, but not when installed. All at some of the equipment we use in our workshop for magneto servicing i found that is a cheaper, easier way to go than doing it my self with refurbished parts. I would narrow the plug gaps to .020" and see what happens. Measure the resistance between the magneto body and terminal in the plug cap. In early magnetos the magnets were formed from a cobalt material and had to be remagnetised if the armature was ever removed. We also sell our Brightspark range of The wires are copper core with non resistor caps. A fair amount maintenance and troubleshooting of a magneto can be done with the magneto in situ and without any special tools or equipment other than a multimeter. Capacitors, which are short-term storage devices, often fail in older magnetos due to dielectric degradation (short circuit) or conductor breakage (open circuit). Check that the spring of the pick-up brush is good, that the brush is free to move in its holder and that it is not unduly worn in length or diameter. There are several common faults with magnetos The Capacitor Capacitors, which are short-term storage devices, often fail in older magnetos due to dielectric degradation (short circuit) or conductor breakage (open circuit). The points gaps with the heel at the centre of each lobe of the cam should be the same, but a small difference is inconsequential. Measure the resistance with the two probes of your multi-meter shorted together. detailed support we offer. This will not stop the coil from working. load correctly in the translated versions of the pages. With a multimeter, check the resistance between the tip of the pick-up brush and the terminal in the plug cap. If it was a typo then you can run it with the cap and rotor off by just holding your wire to the HT terminal and that would eliminate the cap land rotor from the equation. If there is a difference, adjust the points so that it is the smaller gap that is 0.012 (0.3 mm). The coils are, of course, designed for this pressure but no insulation is perfect. 0000000783 00000 n Without suppressor: suppressor: Percentage difference with suppressor: Peak HT voltage to initiate spark: 9600 V: 10600 V at magneto: 10.4 %: 9300 V at spark gap-3.1 %: DC component of HT current immediately after striking spark: 53 mA: 52 mA-1.8 % Put it on bike, timed, no spark. Lucas vertical magneto in good condition and sparking. If there is a main-body earth brush and it is accessible, remove it and check that the spring is good, that the brush is free to move in the holder and that the brush is not unduly worn in length or diameter. Now line up your degree wheel with the pointer at 38*. Trouble starting my 1924 Citroen engine. Put 2 hours of flawless time on the bench. JavaScript is disabled. Lucas Magneto 1930 - 1940. Main-body Earth Brushes and Bearing Insulators: Some magnetos have an earth brush between the contact-breaker back-plate and the contact breaker housing. I'm working on a Lucas Mag right now for the first time and this is extremely helpful. Because it requires no battery or other source of electrical energy, the magneto is a compact and reliable self-contained ignition system, which is why it remains in use in many general aviation applications. If the resistance is higher than about 15,000 ohms, it indicates a bad connection. magnetos. As the magnet moves with respect to the coil, the magnetic flux linkage of the coil changes. If youre giving your magneto a thorough check over, we suggest you tackle jobs in the order shown. [5], The first person to develop the idea of a high-tension magneto was Andr Boudeville,[citation needed] but his design omitted a condenser (capacitor). Reassemble and check operation. If working on your own, holding the end of the HT cable steady 6 mm from the engine is difficult when kicking the starter. As the field collapses rapidly there is a large voltage induced (as described by Faraday's Law) across the primary coil. With the engine running, place your hand over the pick-up with the same hand also touching the magneto body. Come join the discussion about performance, restorations, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more! One or more times per revolution, just as the magnet pole moves away from the coil and the magnetic flux begins to decrease, a cam opens the contact breaker (called "the points" in reference to the two points of a circuit breaker) and interrupts the current. 1. SR1, SR2 & SR4 magnetos (workshop instructions) Not quite as large as ideal, but simple. xref To help magneto owners look after their magnetos Joined: Oct 2009. magnetos and capacitors (for those who wish to if it doesn't jump 3/16" double check the points to see if they are shiny clean the whole face of each point. Due to the inevitable losses in the system, this oscillation decays fairly rapidly. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. The Lucas magdyno and magneto units fitted to all AMC machines after 1939 had Nifal magnets which are not demagnetised by removal of the armature. We would therefore strongly advise against ever trying to make a magneto strike a spark across a gap of anything in excess of 7.5 mm in fresh air. relating to our products, others more general Another cause of atom disorientation is mechanical shock, hammer blows or dropping the unit onto a hard surface, etc. Check that the advance/retard mechanism reliably rotates the cam back and forth. Repeat with clean pieces of petrol-moistened rag, until the rag comes out clean. Great post! %%EOF Also, many magnetos (especially twin- and multi-cylinder devices) are provided internally with safety gaps, typically of 6.5 to 7.5 mm, and if the magneto cant find an outlet through whatever is or isnt connected to it, it happily sparks the safety gaps instead. not load correctly in the translated versions of the pages. If you are sure that all earth brushes are removed, and if either the magneto has a fibre drive pinion or the drive pinion/sprocket has been removed, you can now check the effectiveness of the bearing insulators. or While holding it in that position, tighten the centre screw, but do not use undue force. The turns ratio between the primary and secondary coil is selected so that the voltage across the secondary reaches a very high value, enough to arc across the gap of the spark plug. With the mag on the engine, there is a spark at all 4 plugs . The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. Espaol DO NOT ATTEMPT THIS IF YOU ARE FITTED WITH A PACEMAKER, OR HAVE A HEART CONDITION, OR IF YOU REALLY HATE ELECTRIC SHOCKS.

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